Just Say "NO" to Warrenism

It's like a bad drug that's taken over the mind of the church. Spiritual junk food that impoverishes the Body of Christ. Rick Warren and "Purpose Driven". I say, "Just Say No". Why? Here are a few reasons:

1. Rick Warren isn't even an example to follow from a pastoral standpoint. Why? He seems to be perfectly happy having a pornographer in his church. Ever heard of Rupert Murdoch? He's the guy who printed Rick's books (Rupert also owns Zondervan).

Now, I've heard it said "Big Deal, so Rupert Murdoch published his books. And what is wrong with allowing a pornographer in your church?". Well, regarding the books, I'd probably be kind of concerned about who is getting my money. And as far as allowing a pornographer in the church, that is fine! Pornographers are sinners, just like all other sinners including me. But this isn't about Murdoch. It's about Warren. And Rick Warren apparently thinks there is something humorous about having a pornographer as a part of Saddleback. And because Rick says he is Murdoch's pastor, that implies Murdoch isn't merely a visitor. So Rick, when are you going to ask him to repent? And if he doesn't, when will you bring on church discipline as outlined in Matthew 18? Again, if Murdoch is going to a church to seek the truth and is seeking salvation, great! But Rick should give him the truth and expect repentance -- and if that doesn't happen, church discipline should be the result.

2. Rick Warren's abuse of God's Word. Now, if you just pick up "Purpose Driven Life" and read it, you don't really notice anything wrong. Why is that? Because he uses paraphrases to make it look like the scriptures support his point. Worse, he uses various versions. Why? Because only a given translation or paraphrase will support his point! This is becoming more and more prevalent in the church. If "The New Living" renders a verse in such a way that it supports your argument, then it is "the most accurate translation". I've actually heard that excuse at my own church -- while we were using some of Warren's material.

The proper way to handle God's Word is to read the verse in question and use the original languages to give a proper interpretation for the verse, taking it literally and also incorporating what we know about the verse in the contexts of history, culture and the rest of scripture. A good rule is to ask "What would this verse mean if I were dead". In other words, kill any self-interest in any meaning other than the true one. The one God meant.

But Rick Warren doesn't do that. He uses The New Living and "The Message" (which sometimes even reverses the original intent of a passage). Does he know better? Well, he's formally trained as a Pastor in the Southern Baptist Conference -- so I'd hope he knows better. I'm sure he does. And there is no excuse for this because there are plenty of biblical language tools out there that are simple enough to use by even the newest believer in Christ. But yet, Rick Warren will flip from version to version, paraphrase to paraphrase depending on which one serves to support his arguments.

3. Rick Warren's teachings include New Age elements. Ever heard of "Discovering your life metaphor"? "The way you see your life, shapes your life." Just listen to Rick in PDL. He'll tell you all about it. He uses the writings of Anais Nin who is a writer of female erotica (another pornographer, Rick?). "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are". We change reality by changing our thinking. Uh. Hello? This is right out of the human potential movement and it is certainly not biblical.

Now, I can just hear someone saying "Hey, there are some good things in the human potential movement." Well, I'm not going to go there. All I'm going to do is ask you this: Do you really believe that the scriptures are sufficient? Is it or is it not good enough that God has told us what He wants us to know about church growth and how He wants it done? Or has man somehow improved on God's ideas? Am I saying we have no need for books and preachers? Of course not! But we are to examine everything we hear ("Test the spirits") to be sure that what we are hearing accurately represents what God has said in His Word. If we don't do that, we do it at our own peril because God's Word is the only objective standard we have.

4. Rick Warren denies the true Gospel. Don't think so? Ok -- If you and I were sitting in a room with those who oppose the message of the Gospel -- such as Orthodox Jews, Buddhists, etc., and you heard me tell them that I can't or won't tell them what beliefs are true, what would you think of me as one who professes Christ?

I thought so.

And here is Rick Warren (on video) addressing a group of Orthodox Jewish leaders at Synagogue 3000. And if that doesn't bake your cookies, here's a quote from the Jewish Journal: "Warren told Wolfson his interest is in helping all houses of worship, not in converting Jews. He said there are more than enough Christian souls to deal with for starters."

If that doesn't ruffle your feathers just a little, I'd urge you do ask yourself if you really know Christ.

5. Rick Warren is a serial liar. This is public knowlege. It came to light with his visit to Syria a while back. He went there and gave praises to Syria for being "moderate". He was caught doing this on video. He then lied about a video being made and blamed "Christian Bloggers" for "trusting the Syian press" (funny, I thought he had good things to say about Syria...what happened?). The video was pulled by Saddleback, and Warren kept saying it's all about bloggers telling untruths. He claimed that there was no video. Oddly enough though, he showed it at his "AIDS Summit" at Saddleback! What? Rick? How can you show a video that doesn't exist? To this day, he maintains this is all misrepresentation by bloggers. He just can't deliver the truth that the rest of us can hear and see.

(Article in progress, check back later for updates)

More on the Zeitgeist Follies

As you will recall, two days ago I referenced an article on "The Spirit of Error". The author's fundamental point had to do with why it is so difficult in our day to rationalize Biblically with so many people. You put the Scriptures out in front of them. Everything is perfectly clear. There is no refuting what is being said. But they just can't seem to "get it".

The point was that such people may well have been handed over to the Zeitgeist, the "spirit of the age". (The "spirit of the age" morphs over time. Currently, the spirit of the age is tolerance and commercialism. Rick Warren and others have mastered this.) If you say "no" to the truth long enough, the Lord will send a deluding spirit which will harden you. It is a judgment from God.

No, I'm not saying that if someone disagrees with me that they are in this position. Not at all. But I'm not talking about those rational conversations where there can be a valid difference of opinion. I'm talking about those who follow error even though the Scriptures clearly teach something contrary to what someone believes.

Ever notice that so often, comments tend to be hot or cold. In other words, either they are in total agreement or someone has to argue? It's not because I censor anything. It's because that is how it is! To date, no one has ever come around and said "Hey, I see what you mean but can you explain this to me?" It's either an agreement or a fight. Nothing in the middle.

I think it is because of the effect of the zeitgeist, the spirit of the age. The division between the two camps is becoming clearer and there is much less honest discussion. If someone disagrees, they must do it violently. Civility is gone. It's "Troll's Day Out". And even when someone asks for an explanation, you often find they really aren't interested in Biblical truth, but just a fight.

Not long ago, I got a comment here from a pastor. He told me that he didn't expect me to post it (it was off-topic). But he wanted me to review some material on Rick Warren, stating that maybe I could find something redeeming in him. This person has been a problem on this blog (and others). He causes problems then when his comments get rejected, it's the old "no one is allowed to disagree with you" bit.

Well, that's ok. I can read most of what people send me. But when I saw this, I couldn't believe it. Could someone really take what they had sent me seriously? Here is what they wanted met to evaluate in an effort to redeem Rick Warren, in my eyes. The following is from a web site. He copied it from there. I'll leave the "zinger" for last. My comments will be in blue...:

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According to the commenter, Rick Warren allegedly said:

1. "Saddleback may be the most spiritual[sic] mature church in the nation… we have more people in small groups than we have in Sunday morning worship… we have 13842 tithers… over 14,000 people having a daily quiet time… the over 15,000 people who are serving in ministry…"

Now, I say "wow"! This is supposed to be partial evidence of Orthodoxy on the part of Rick Warren? The fact that he has so many people in his church? Where in the Bible do you find numerical growth as a sign of spiritual maturity? To be specific, check the seven letters to the churches in Revelation. There were lots of rebukes there. None were about a lack of numerical growth! No where in the New Testament will you find anyone saying that numerical growth is a sign of the maturity of a church!

If numerical growth demonstrates spiritual maturity, what do we make of Islam?

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2. "Teaching a sermon will not disciple people… it is not enough."

Say What? I think I have a problem with this! 2 Peter tells us to desire the "sincere milk" that we may grow! In order to have proper practice, you must have proper teaching...and proper preaching from the pulpit will provide the proper teaching! You feed garbage in? You will put out garbage. It is the exposition of God's Word that helps us understand what God has said. And when what God has said is properly preached, it will cut and sting and cause growth! Now, are there other things too? Sure! Those other things include accountability from other believers. Someone coming to you when you are wrong and correcting you. Doing church discipline when there is no repentance. But taken on its face, this would appear to be an assault on Biblical preaching!

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3. "Prosperity gospel: don’t ever put an adjective in front of gospel: Prosperity gospel, social gospel. The gospel is good news: Christ died and resurrected for our sins."

What is being done here is putting all the errant gospels in one basket with the true one! There is only one "real" gospel as Paul said in Galatians 1. What Rick Warren is allegedly doing here is asking us to accept anything that claims to be the Gospel as valid! It would appear to be an appeal to stop distinguishing between the false and true. "If it mentions Jesus, it is the gospel". No thanks.

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4. "[Referring to the temptation of Jesus] The plan was that Jesus would be worship[sic] because he died on a cross not because he jumped off the temple."

No, the point of the temptation was to show that He couldn't be broken down. He will be worshiped because He is Lord of all. Everything He did in His life demonstrates that by His Character we know He is God, the rightful Master over all His creation.Rick Warren's alleged statement is shallow, at best.

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5. "Spiritual growth is incarnational… it’s Christ in you… it is helping people let Christ live through them… Christ in you the hope of Glory."

Progressive sanctification is realized through death to self. It's not just "letting Jesus" do anything. Our Lord demands anyone who would follow Him die to self. The statement sounds good, but it's watered down.


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6. "There are three dangers: hedonism, materialism, and secularism-- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. If you have been in the minsitry 10 to 20 years and kept your pants on, I honor you."

This is plain sick. Paul had a much higher standard. See Titus and Timothy. It was much more than “Keeping your pants on for 10 or 20 years”. Someone should try reading the two epistles.

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7. "Jesus led people from "come and see" to "deny yourself and take up the cross" to "eat my body and drink my blood." That takes a while and it takes a plan.

Some of you are “come and see preachers” and your people need you to lead people to “eat my body and drink my blood.” They need you to lead them to harder truths. You need a plan to move people to high commitment of "denying yourself" and “eat my body and drink my blood.” Some of you are “eat my body and drink my blood preachers” and you need a plan to help people “come and see.” Church is all about bringing people closer and closer to Christ."

How many times in the Gospels did Jesus lay out the cost of following Him in very stark terms at the outset...and let people walk away? Where is Warren getting this from? On one site (which I'd have to find and link to) Warren tries to use this to demonstrate that salvation can precede recognizing Christ as Lord by three years. What Warren is doing is justifying easy believe-ism. You don't "need a plan", all you have to do is preach about sin, the law, and the need for repentance! Of course, your numbers may go down if you have been "purpose driven". . .

-------- End of the list ---------

Now, I know that my responses here can be fuller. I'm not trying to give a comprehensive response to this. Besides, that isn't my point. Which brings me to the "zinger" that I told you I'd save for the end. We're coming to it.

Again, this is from a pastor who has been known to defend Warren "tooth and nail" according to another blogger. This is in spite of the fact that Rick Warren's ecumenical escapades are well documented. This is in spite of the fact that Rick Warren's position on Rupert Murdock (a high profile pornographer who attends Rick Warren's church) is well known. Murdoch apparently can sell as much filth as he wants and Warren doesn't see a problem with it. Click here for a list of articles about Rick Warren which are at this blog.

No, no. None of that matters to some because Rick Warren Said Some Things That Sound Good!

Wanna know the zinger? The list is a cut and paste job from a person's site. The person's site says this about the quotes I just responded to:

"Here are a few quotes (written on the fly, but I think they are pretty accurate) from when Rick spoke. "

Oh. Ok. I see. We have something here..."written on the fly", which someone "thinks" are "pretty accurate" from some talk Rick Warren gave. "Quotes on the fly". Nothing authoritative. Nothing known to be true. Maybe in the ballpark, maybe not. But we'll buy into it.

And someone wants me to take this as evidence that there is "something redeemable about Warren's theology"? Statements about still having your pants up after years in the ministry? Discounting discernment regarding the true gospel and the false ones?

After all the teaching on Purpose Driven from Bob DeWaay on this site, (which the person, to my knowledge, has never listened to, even after being challenged to do so) after all the clear reporting on this blog about what Warren has been teaching and doing, this is somehow supposed to speak for him?

Wow.

Well, welcome to another chapter in the Zeitgeist Follies!

Death of Discernment Pt. 3Rick Warren’s Inquisition

From Christian Research Network:

"Excerpts from Joseph Farah’s excellent article at WorldNet Daily:

While mega-pastor Rick Warren has joined a group of 100 church leaders calling for interfaith dialogue and the building of "common ground" with Muslims, he has a slightly different outlook toward Christians with whom he disagrees.

In his latest missive to fellow pastors, he writes: "You’ve got to protect the unity of your church. If that means getting rid of troublemakers, do it."

"As pastors, as shepherds of God’s people, it’s our job to protect our congregations from Satan’s greatest weapon – disunity," he writes. "It’s not always easy, but it’s what we’ve been called to do…"

…Has it ever occurred to Rick Warren that pastors have been wrong? Has it ever occurred to Rick Warren that pastors might teach unbiblical principles? Has it ever occurred to Rick Warren no earthly pastor is the recipient of all Divine revelation? Has it ever occurred to Rick Warren that pastors have led entire flocks into grave error that may have eternal consequences?

Has it ever occurred to Rick Warren that he, too, might be capable of such mistakes?

Rick Warren makes a spiritually fatal error when he proclaims, without any biblical authority, that Satan’s greatest weapon is disunity. That is simply not true. The Bible reveals over and over again that even one spirit-filled believer can stand up against Satan. God is not impressed with numbers. He doesn’t need numbers for victory. He doesn’t care about big churches. He doesn’t care about the cathedrals of men. He wants numbers only because He is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).No, Satan’s greatest weapon is hardly disunity. His greatest weapon since his fall and since the Garden of Eden has been deception. In fact, Satan loves unity – as long as those unified are knowingly or unknowingly serving him. He’d love for all of us to "go to hell in a handbasket."Read the rest of Joseph Farah’s commentary here…

See related articles Satan’s Greatest Weapon: Disunity? , SBC President Not Interested In the Victims of Purpose Driven, Unity In The Teaching of Apostolic Truth Yields Godly Love , Rick Warren, Evangelicals, Invite Muslims to Love God Together** , Begging forgiveness of Islam?"

Rick Warren You Are A Hypocrite:Saddleback Speaks Out After Rick Warren Called to Discipline Murdoch

Christian Research Network has a new article on the Warren/Murdoch pornography debacle.

Here is an excerpt -- Rick Warren's own words on dealing with sin in the church. Too bad it doesn't seem to apply to Rupert Murdoch, the purveyor of porn, who donates high, wide and handsome to Warren's causes.:

"Sin is to be confessed only as widely as it affects others. Private sin requires only private confession to God. Personal sin that involves others requires interpersonal confession to the people involved. Public sins (those that affect a large group of people in our congregation) regrettably must be dealt with publicly as a warning to others."

The rest can be read here.

Ingrid Scheuter at Slice of Laodicea also has a post at her blog:
"To Rick Warren: Deal With Sin or Resign"

Rev. Ken Silva at the Christian Research Institute has posted on the ongoing hypocrisy at Saddleback where Rick Warren steadfastly refuses to acknowledge his biblical responsibility as shepherd of porn producing Rupert Murdoch. Silva challenges Warren as a former Southern Baptist and does so on the basis of Rick Warren’s own claim that he pastors the media mogul. I second Rev. Silva’s call to Rick Warren to either behave like a true shepherd or resign for engaging in spiritual malpractice. Favoritism is forbidden by Holy Scripture and Murdoch needs to be held accountable for the incalculable damage he is doing to millions through his pornography channels."

Warrenism and the Death of Discernment

It was a recent post of mine that triggered the ire of one of my readers. That's ok. I'm used to it. The person posted a comment which was loaded with sarcasm. It was obviously something written by someone who didn't share my convictions. Again, that is ok.

I write this because I think the time is right to review the issue of discernment. I'll let you read the thread, it is very tedious. But as it turns out, this person was, in fact, trying to defend Rick Warren. After I closed the thread, the commenter wrote a private email to me and informed me that Rick Warren is his pastor. He said he would have told me earlier, but then I hadn't asked. Oh well.

What really got up this guy's nose is that I said Rick Warren is an apostate. An apostate is someone who has fallen away from a former orthodox position. I will assume that Rick Warren was, at one time, orthodox in his beliefs regarding the basics of the Christian faith. As far as where he is now? Well, I'll let Rick state it for you. What follows are just a few links.

For all the "Joes" in this world who really believe in this guy, I'd ask you to carefully compare what you read and hear from Rick Warren in light of a decent Bible (for example, an NIV, KJV or NASB). Rick tends to pick modern paraphrases that feature a verse worded in a way that supports a given argument. So, instead of the Bible ruling over the content of his message, he finds the Scriptures a handy tool to subject to his own, uhm, "purposes".

Just a few cursory points first -- The true Gospel includes the message of repentance. I'd challenge anyone to examine Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life" and count how many times the word "Repentance" is used. Let me save you some time: Not Once. What the "Joes" of this world need to do is reexamine how they defend Pastor Warren, claiming he does preach repentance while you never hear him say it nor read it in his printed material.

Ok -- What about Warren on "The Essentials" or, as stated by Joe, "foundational doctrinal issues"? Warren thinks that Mormons, Christians and Jews are just different "Denominations"! Ready? Here is another one. And of course, how Muslims and Christians should just get together and worship God...

I recall a video from CNN where Larry King interviewed Warren. I'll have to look for that one. Until then, here's a post that links to a video where you can watch him lump cults and denominations all together. After all, doctrine isn't important!

Joe argued later in the thread that a pastor must be "engaging". I'd argue that while that is a nice "plus", it certainly isn't an essential. What is essential is substance. The apostle Paul, self-described in 1 Corinthians, was not eloquent. He repeated the "reviews" of those to whom he preached. But he had substance. And I'd argue that eloquence can lull you more deeply into error.

So here is my plea: Let's see the "Joes" of this world needing us to help them return to at least some minimial form of discernment. When those who profess Christ can honestly try to defend those who openly spread a false Gospel we have really failed to represent the Gospel entrusted to us.

For the Joes? Let this be a loud wake-up call.

Rick Warren Apologizes -- (well, sort of...)

WorldNetDaily reports that megachurch "pastor" Rick Warren has emailed an apology to Joseph Farah. However, he then went on to imply that those who oppose him are doing the devil's work. (Which, of course, would include Mr. Farah...!)

Biblical lesson number one: Never trust a serpent.

Now, let's just review a bit. This is all about Rick Warren inviting Pro-Abortion Barack Obama (among others) to Saddleback Church for a conference on solving the AIDS problem.

Uh, Rick? Aids can only be avoided by practicing abstinence outside of marriage and fidelity to your spouse in marriage... So what's the conference about? Dispensing condoms? When you speak, will you make a point of proclaiming the message of sin, judgement and reconciliation through repentance from sin and trust in the finished work of Christ? Do it! I dare you!

But, in my opinion, Rick Warren doesn't care about AIDS, any more than he cares about obeying God's Word. All he cares about is political gains. Power. From what I have seen, that is the "purpose" that "drives" Mr. Warren.

His superiors at the Southern Baptist Conference have requested he turn Sen. Obama away. Many Christian groups have done the same. Has he changed his mind? No. And I doubt he will! What threat does the SBC pose to Rick Warren? None! All they can do is excommunicate him, to which Rick would most likely just paint it as a "poor persecuted me" scenario. He's already doing that in his letter of "apology" to Mr. Farah.

Mr. Warren's ego is at stake. He wouldn't turn back if he even cared to because that would hurt his pride. He perceives he has nothing to lose because he has already decided that appealing to the unredeemed world is of prime importance. He has openly written that those who oppose the "Pupose Driven" agenda must be pushed out of the way. He has his global P.E.A.C.E. plan in place, and the ears of the U.N., at which he spoke some time back -- without once mentioning the Lord Jesus Christ and how He can redeem mankind.

Make no mistake about it. He doesn't care about any of the issues he talks about -- beyond any political gains he can make through them.

Mr. Warren lied about Syria being "moderate". Then when he thought the evidence was gone, he denied saying this, blaming it on "bloggers who got bad information from the Syrians". Now that the evidence is all over the place, does he apologize for lying? Nope! Just that he may have "...angered and offended..." Mr. Farah "...personally...", which Mr. Farah says isn't an issue.

And now, he's moving to damage control.

Mr. Warren: It has been said often by others, but let me say this as well. You owe alot of apologies to alot of people. You owe an apology to those in your own church. You owe an apology to the Christians in Syria who know the persecution you implied doesn't exist in "moderate Syria". You owe an apology to those who have mistakenly put their trust in you as a leader because you now demonstrate you have no sense duty to speak the truth. You need to repent, Mr. Warren, and while I cannot ultimately judge the state of your heart before God, I'd be willing to guess based on the fruit I've seen that you need conversion as well.

You've been trusting in yourself. You must repent and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rick Warren: Saddleback’s Purpose Driven Censors Didn’t Spin Fast Enough

Christian Research Network has supplied a spin piece from Warren's web site --- which has since been pulled. Regardless of Warren's "Pastors.com" website, in which Warren openly states that he is Rupert Murdoch's pastor, the spin article claims this is all false.

Here is the article from CRN:

"Christian Research Net readers will recall a piece here yesterday called Rick Warren: Saddleback Response to Murdoch/Porn Issue Suddenly Disappears! In it I pointed out that before the long arm of the Saddleback censors reached out to gobble it up Ingrid Schlueter over at Slice of Laodicea had provided the link from A Rick Warren Blog which contained Saddleback "Chief of Staff" David Chrzan’s response to the newstory Murdoch’s porn pastor gets heat for mogul’s porn channels by World Net Daily’s Joseph Farah. A response that Saddleback "Spin Doctor" Mark Kelly had called, "a forceful reply to Joseph Farah of World Net Daily."

Well, it turns out that in this case the Saddleback censors simply didn’t spin fast enough because here is the link to a screen shot of Mark Kelly’s Saddleback "hit piece" No Incentive for Checking facts as it originally appeared in the public domain of the Internet yesterday. One really has to wonder; why was Kelly forced to take it down? Could it actually be that Rick Warren and Saddleback decided to discipline one of their own in Mark Kelly for spreading lies about Joseph Farah of WND and Chris Rosebrough and me here at CRN? Stay tuned as I’ll have more on this later."

Here we go again. Just like the video taken in Syria, which Warren said didn't exist, which he then showed at his political summit at Saddleback.

Yeah, I trust Rick Warren.

You might also want to check out this article "Anatomy of Saddleback Spin"

Rick Warren: Cone of Shame Award...

From "The Lawman Chronicles", I pass the following on to you....:

"Warren spoke yesterday to the annual Islamic Society of North America convention, in Washington, DC. Sadly, as expected, Warren failed to share the gospel. That, in and of itself, merits Warren's dubious distinction as a "Cone of Shame" recipient.

Reading several media reports regarding Warren's address, it appears that Warren continues to slide down the sinful and unbiblical slope of ecumenism and pluralism, as Warren unashamedly promotes his social gospel agenda.

Warren is quoted as saying, "I am commanded to love and I am commanded to respect everybody."

What Warren fails to realize is that the most loving thing he could have done for the thousands of lost people gathered to hear him speak was to speak the truth in love--to call Muslims to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rick Warren, you don't love people as much as you claim to. If you truly loved Muslims you would lay down your secular popularity for the furtherance of the gospel. You would put their eternal destiny before your social agenda.

Sadly, Rick Warren belongs in the "Cone of Shame" because he continues to prove that false conversion begins in the pulpit, not in the pew."

Amen, Tony!

By the way, a "cone of shame enhancer" can be found here...Seems that "christian" "pastor" Warren doesn't have a problem afilliating with those who act forcefully against those investigating Islamic radicalism...Way to go Rick! At least now, some of your previously blinded followers might just wake up!

A quote from the above source: "Dave Gaubatz, a former Air Force special agent who has traveled the country investigating radical Islamist mosque and attempts at imposing Shariah law in the U.S., was forcibly removed from the conference after paying the $100 attendance fee. "

Hey, Rick? How do you defend this...as a so-called "christian" and as a so-called "pastor"?

The source for Tony's article is here. Thank you, Tony!

Vengeance: Rick Warren Style

Just when you think you get a break, he's at it again... From "The Hartline Report":

'San Diego Christian Leader Pays Steep Price For Speaking Out Against Rick Warren

An Exclusive James Hartline Report - On The Frontlines Of The Culture War - December 30, 2007

San Diego Christian Leader Pays Steep Price For Speaking Out Against Rick Warren's Unethical Use of Saddleback Church Pulpit:

Christian Activist James Hartline Loses Well-Known Media Support After Signing Published Letter That Calls On Rick Warren To Stop Allowing Pro-Abortion & Pro-Homosexual Speakers In His Pulpit

(JHReport) A nationally recognized Christian activist has learned firsthand that there is a steep price to pay for speaking out against the moral corruption of one of America's most powerful Protestant ministers. Despite the high cost to himself personally, James Hartline has been willing to expose, what he says, is a disturbing trend of theological and moral compromise coming from the pulpit of Rick Warren, pastor of the 20,000-member Saddleback Church.

Included in Hartline's laundry list of complaints against Pastor Warren is the recent speaking engagement of pro-gay and pro-abortion Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton at Saddleback Church. Hillary Clinton's invitation from Warren to speak at his church followed a speech by Clinton before the radical gay activist group The Human Rights Campaign (HRC) where she told the HRC "she wants a partnership with gays if elected president."...'

Here's the rest of the story...

*Update* Rick Warren Gets Set Straight

From Apprising Ministries:

"In a World Net Daily piece called Rick Warren: ‘I always own up to my mistakes’ we’re told that, "Many false claims, [Warren] contended, have taken on a life of their own on Internet blogs, such as assertions he was mentored by positive-thinking pastor Robert Schuller."

Then Purpose Driven Pope Rick Warren says: "I’ve only met Robert Schuller twice, I believe. I’ve never had a one-on-one conversation with him. Not once. So how do I even know him?" The WND story goes on to inform us:

Warren said some criticism is simply baseless, charging many "don’t do their due diligence on research." The Robert Schuller "mentorship," for example, likely originated with a statement the Crystal Cathedral pastor made on CNN’s "Larry King Live"… The claim was furthered by author George Mair in a biography of Warren called "A Life with Purpose" then spread like wildfire among Internet blogs."

Well, Mr. Warren I certainly don’t want to be one of those who don’t "do their due diligence on research." However, it sure appears to be Rick Warren who needs to be set straight because here’s what Robert Schuller’s Hour of Power website says right now:"

Click here to continue.

Rick Warren Goes Wahhabi

With everything else going on regarding Obama, it's been a while since we've seen a post about "America's Pastor", Rick Warren. But he's still out there, as problematic as ever.

Here's the text from Ingrid at Slice of Laodicea:

'“The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

—Just one of the hate-filled quotes on the website for the Islamic Society of North America. Rick Warren will be speaking to their convention during the 4th of July weekend.

The Canadian Free Press is raising questions about Rick Warren that the Southern Baptist Convention refuses to. What in the world is Warren doing speaking at an Islamic Society of North America gathering? To preach Christ crucified? To rebuke them for their hatred of Israel and promise to destroy it? To speak out against the growing number of “honor killings” in North America? The Southern Baptist Convention leadership has given Rick Warren a free pass for far too long. Now the world has to come along and ask the hard questions.'


...and, as usual, here's a link to the original post...

Rick Warren: Playing Both Sides of the Gay Agenda

From "Watcher's Lamp":

"Is the gay agenda simply just another pawn in Rick Warren's global Purpose Driven PEACE Plan? As a Southern Baptist pastor, does Rick Warren sympathize with homosexuality or does he refute it?

Apparently, it depends on what country Rick Warren is promoting his Purpose Driven PEACE plan. Let's take a look at Rick Warren's geographically-driven position on homosexuality. . .."

The rest is here, judge for yourself.

Oh yeah, here's another Saddleback moment in the making:

Gay Activist Group to Visit Saddleback on Father's Day

"The Secret's in the Sauce..."

Quick!

What does a famous fast food chain and Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven" franchise have in common?

• Well, Rick Warren has a "secret sauce" that's deadly to the life of the Church (well, ok, it's not that secret but it's certainly subliminal).
• It certainly could be called a "convenience religion" that is more concerned with "serving" than "saving".
• Warren learned his stuff from the founder of a "drive in" church, the liberal psychologist/"pastor" Robert Schuller.

So what's this all about?

It's about "Redefining Christianity" by Bob DeWaay. Bob discusses Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven" agenda, theology and methodology and helps us understand how it is laced with New Age concepts and other bad theology. It is a 15 part discussion of Bob's book of the same title. I highly recommend it as part of a nutritional spiritual diet!

On the menu of the many other documented things you'll learn:

• How Rick's "private" theology differs from his public theology and how you too can "have it both ways".
• How Rick Warren uses whatever aberrant modern translation to serve his "purpose".
• How Rick publically dodges clear opportunities to proclaim Jesus Christ as The Way, The Truth and The Life to the exclusion of any other 'pathway to God'.
  
• Why anyone from most any religion can come away from "The Purpose Driven Life" with the conviction that it fits his or her religion quite nicely, thank you!
  
  
  bon appétit!

*NOTE: Since posting this it's come to my attention that oneplace.com doesn't have the complete series available. Bob DeWaay has informed me that his ministry is rebroadcasting them and that they are available on his ministry website. Go there and look for "Radio" down the left of the page under "Redefining Christianity".

Islam, Judaism, Warrenism & Emergentism Under One Roof

From Watcher's Lamp:

"Rick Warren continues to share his religious consumerism marketing techniques with the members of the Union for Reform Judaism...

From the Christian Post: Rick Warren Counsels Jews on Recruiting Congregants

With the holiday season in mind, Warren urged clergy to take advantage of crowded events to publicize other programs so people can get involved in the community through smaller groups. “There are some principles that apply regardless of our faith, if it’s Jewish or Christian,” he said at the convention.

Other guests at the conference included the Emergent leader Jim Wallis of Sojourners and Dr. Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America.

Editor's note: What's wrong with this picture? Hello Rick, Can you spell ecumenism? Can you spell marketing? Can you spell heresy?"

Read the original here.

I have only one question for anyone who really supports Rick Warren: If you are really a Christian, why would you ever want to help other religions attract people to a lie?

Warren on "Learn to Laugh"

Ok, I admit it. Part of the reason I selected this as a post is because I wanted an excuse to use my neat "Outer Limits" graphic. But it doesn't invalidate the point I want to underscore: Rick Warren's seeming addiction to the abuse of scripture to make his point...even if perhaps there are valid scriptures he could find to do so.

Case in point. This article from the Christian Post, where Pastor Wannabe uses Psalm 2 to promote his position that God wants us to learn to laugh.

When they were teaching hermeneutics to Rick at seminary, I am convinced he just sat there and said "Herman Who?"

Rick Warren seems to love lifting scripture out of context. Sometimes even a few words. To respond in kind to Warren, I will close this entry with a quote from The Sacred Sandwich:

In keeping with this rather self-serving model of Scripture citation, The Sacred Sandwich wishes to respond to Warren with a phrase from Romans 11:32 (NASB) to make a point of our own: "Shut up..."

Hey Rick? Maybe you should order this DVD!

Wonder What His Definition of "Is" Is?

Here we go again.

Seems like Rick Warren's machine can't make up its mind.

If you've been following the RickCapades, you know that Slick Rick went to Syria and spoke on how nice and moderate Syria is -- you know, the place where the terrorists breed. The place that killed a Christian (just for being a Christian) the day after Warren made his claim about Syria. *cough*

Then, as we read at WorldNetDaily, he said that he never invites politicians to Saddleback to speak (Of course, later in the same email, he listed the politicians that were coming to his church to speak).

Why should this surprise me? This Clintonesque behavior comes from the same guy who says that he isn't "telling us what parameters are right and wrong" when it comes to defining what we believe -- and in context, he's including Buddhists, Catholics, Jews and Christians. And if you can't decide what real truth is, anything goes, doesn't it Rick?

That explains a multitude of behaviors. I guess it depends on how you define "is".

So, Rick, if "not everything can equally true..." please tell me what you believe to be exclusively true. You know, the Gospel. Oh yeah, you can't do that because you'll alienate your product from your potential "customers". Oh well. The truth is only worth so much, isn't it?

Hear it yourself and come to understand Rick Warren the Chameleon; Here, he tells his congregation "We all need Jesus! Left or Right is irrelevant to me. I'm not a politician. I am a pastor, and my calling is to go "to ALL nations and ALL people " with the saving knowledge of Jesus." But here he can't tell other faiths what is true or isn't.

By the way, here is a link to the list of Warren videos at Synagogue3000. Remember -- I didn't post them, they (Orthodox Jewish leaders) did.

RICK WARREN PLACING A PURPOSE DRIVEN BURDEN UPON PEOPLE’S BACKS

From Apprising Ministries:

'“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.”
(Matthew 23:4, NASB)

In The Purpose Driven Church Rick Warren says:

It is my deep conviction that anybody can be won to Christ if you discover the key to his or her heart. That key to each person's heart is unique so it is sometimes difficult to discover. It may take some time to identify it. But the most likely place to start is with the person’s felt needs. (219)

First, “deep conviction” proves absolutely nothing; many people have all kinds of convictions about all kinds of things, and how one happens to feel about something has zero bearing upon truth.

And second, what a horrible burden Rick Warren has just placed on the backs of those who would preach his Purpose Driven version of Christ’s gospel. To win people to Christ we are to seek and search for the key to their heart, which he tells us is so unique it is sometimes difficult to discover.

So, this begs the question: Since Warren is taking credit that “anybody can be won to Christ” with enough effort, is he then going to take responsibility for those he comes into contact with who end up in Hell because he couldn’t discover the key to their heart?

What a terrible burden for these Purpose Driven new evangelicals; if they don’t work hard enough to discover each person’s “felt needs,” then they actually end up responsible for that person being lost to a place called Hell.'

Who Are the "WE" and the "THEM" of Warren's Global PEACE Plan?

From Watcher's Lamp:

"From the Davos World Economic Forum, Rick Warren describes how private, government and faith sectors (Drucker's 3-legged stool) can tackle the global giants of poverty, AIDS, corruption illiteracy, disease, and spiritual emptiness. Rick Warren use the word THEM to describe the people of faith.

But who are the "WE" in Warren's comments? Plainly, the "WE" consists of the global movers and shakers of the World Economic Forum. Warren also tells the audience of his membership on the Council on Foreign Relations. Could the "WE" Warren refers to in this video clip refer to the global elite with whom he associates?

Here's the highlights of the clip below..

• The global faith sector plays an integral part of the "3-legged stool " of global social change
• Houses of worship have Universal Distribution: Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and Christians represent 5/6 of the world's population. If you take "people of faith" out of the equation you rule out 5/6 of the people on the earth. "WE" are in more locations than the United Nations, "WE" speak more languages, "WE" are in a thousand more people groups than the United Nations. "WE" have to mobilize these faith groups to work together on these unsolvable issues.
• WE have the biggest manpower and WE don't have to pay THEM... THEY have local credibility...people trust the priest, pastor iman and rabbi, the religious leaders of their faith. Government and nations come and go, but the CHURCH has a 2000 year track record.

What WE need to do here at Davos (World Economic Forum), WE WE need to work on a three legged stool...WE haven't solved these problems before because WE have to have the public, private and faith sectors to solve these things.

Frankly, I don't care why you do good as long as you do good. You may have a political, profit, or personal motivation to do something now about the problems of the world."

Rick Warren, 'gay' advocate team up to host Obama-McCain

From WorldNetDaily, an excerpt:

"The upcoming joint appearance by Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain at Rick Warren's evangelical Saddleback Church is co-sponsored by a left-leaning group led by a Unitarian-Universalist minister who once headed her denomination's homosexual advocacy office.
Meg Riley is the board president of Faith in Public Life, whose board members include other theological liberals, including a pro-abortion Muslim leader and a Jewish rabbi, reported OneNewsNow.

The group's stated vision hints at its challenge to the influence of the so-called religious right, saying it "envisions a country in which diverse religious voices for justice and the common good consistently impact public policy; and those who use religion as a tool of division and exclusion do not dominate public discourse."

The blog Watchers Lamp noted Faith in Public Life offers a list of faith-based groups on its website that promote the homosexual-rights agenda.

Warren told OneNewsNow, a Christian Internet site, he's not troubled by the association with a group at odds with his church's conservative evangelical theology.
"Really we just are ... co-hosting [the event]," Warren said, noting Faith in Public Life came up with the idea.

"Actually, we're in total control of the format, the program, the questions," he said. "It's at our church; and so it's not their event, it's our event."


Let's see: Warren is in control of the format, the program and the questions. Care to guess how many hardball questions will be asked about "gay marriage"? Will Obama's feet be held to the fire about his views on abortion and his voting against the Born Alive Protection Act?

Nah, I don't think so either. But you can read the article here.

Rick Warren, Ed McMahonand the Holy Spirit.

TeamPyro always seems to come up with great comparisons. This one is no different.

It's time to review priorities. In the light of all the attention PDL brings to Rick Warren (and that he brings to himself), I think it healthy to review this at TeamPyro. What did Ed McMahon do that Rick Warren doesn't? And most importantly, what the Bible says about the work of the Holy Spirit.

Enjoy.